MUSED: LA 2 HOU
MUSED: LA 2 HOU
SON CUATRO | Cheech in Conversation with CiCi Segura González
CiCi Segura González is the featured artist in this episode of the “Son Cuatro: In Conversation” podcast co-hosted by art advocate Cheech Marin with Todd Wingate, Director of Exhibitions and Collections at Riverside Art Museum; Cris Scorza, the Helena Rubinstein Chair of Education at the Whitney Museum of American Art; and arts marketing specialist Melissa Richardson Banks of CauseConnect, the producer and moderator of this series who also manages Marin's notable Chicano art collection.
Check out more in-depth articles, stories, and photographs by Melissa Richardson Banks at www.melissarichardsonbanks.com. Learn more about CauseConnect at www.causeconnect.net.
Follow Melissa Richardson Banks on Instagram as @DowntownMuse; @MUSEDhouston, and @causeconnect.
Subscribe and listen to the MUSED: LA 2 HOU podcast on your favorite streaming platforms, including Spotify, iHeart, Apple Podcasts, and more!
Welcome
SPEAKER_01:to Sun Quatro in Conversation. This series is by Riverside Art Museum, aka RAM, leading up to its opening of the Cheech Mudding Center for Chicano Art and Culture, aka the Cheech. I'm Melissa Richardson-Banks. And today, there are four of us. In conversation with my friend and artist, Cece Segura-Gonzalez, Ton Woodgate, Director of Exhibitions and Collections at Riverside Art Museum, Chris Gorza, the Helena Rubinstein Chair of Education at the Whitney Museum of American Art, and the incomparable Cheech Marine, entertainer, filmmaker, comedian, collector, and art advocate. I've worked with Cheech about 20 years, and the best part of my work is I get to work with him. but also sometimes very rarely I get to introduce a new artist to him. It doesn't happen very often because he's out there scouting artists all the time. And especially during the pandemic when he became really prolific on Instagram. So about 10 years ago, art writer Matt Gleason called me and asked if I would stop by his Chinatown Gallery Coagula Curatorial. He had a show at the time featuring works by Sisi. And when I texted Cheech images of Cyclops and musical chairs, he immediately said, get those, and then he placed them in our nationally touring exhibition, Chichenitas, and its companion catalog. Todd, can you tell us a little bit about Cece?
SPEAKER_05:Absolutely. Thank you, Melissa. Primarily an abstract artist, Cece Segura-Gonzalez also paints figurative work using oil, acrylic, and watercolor, utilizing printmaking techniques to create woodcuts, etchings, and monoprints. She studied at East Los Angeles College, working with artist mentors such as Roberto Chavez, Dale May, and and Uli Berg. Like many Chicano artists, she printed at LA's Self-Help Graphics under the guidance of Sister Karen Boca Calero and has taught at-risk youth. She has worked for many companies such as the Walt Disney Company as an in-house graphic designer, a storyboard artist, fashion illustrator, and art director. For the annual Tropico de Nopal Calavera fashion show in Los Angeles, she has created costumes over the years in homage to art icons such as Rufino Tamayo and David Altaro Sequeros. Widely collected and internationally, Her artwork also is included in major U.S. publications and private collections. Her work is featured on the cover of the catalog for Propel Chicano Dos, works on paper from the Cheech Marine Collection, which is on view currently at the Colorado Springs Fine Arts Center now through August 7th. So my first question is for Cheech. And Cheech, would you tell us a little bit about how you came to know Cece and started acquiring her work?
SPEAKER_04:Well, I was, thanks to I was alerted to her by Melissa, first at that Coagula, whatever that name is, and Matt Gleason's gallery in downtown in Chinatown. And I didn't see the works in person, but I saw them on a computer and it was, oh, they were fascinating to me. I love the craftsmanship in them. And so that's how I, and then I went down to Chimao, the other gallery, to see them in person. And then I was really impressed. And the main work that I bought was Soy Chicana. We just straightened out the title of that. Soy Chicana, which is a big, a large piece. And I was knocked over by it, but mostly because of the way it was hung. I mean, she had, looks like it was still wet, you know, or something. She had barely rolled it up and then somebody just, they just tacked it on the wall and it's a large piece. So, There was a kind of like hung suede in the middle, you know, but I knew it was a major piece right away. And so we conducted a deal for that. The thing that was fascinating me most about CeCe, you CeCe, is that I had never heard of you before. And that's like, well, how did I miss this lady? You know, and it was like hiding in plain sight, it seems to me at the end of the day, because you had been involved in the movement earlier with all the self-help graphics and all the other places that you showed and worked at. But I didn't know your name and I didn't know your work and it would seem kind of hidden. And then when I started talking to you, I found out your background that I think that that same time we were working for Disney, you know? And so I said, well, this is a breakthrough. We're smuggling Chicanos into Disney now. This is good. But it was kind of hidden by the corporate world that you were in, but the work was coming out. And so as I investigated farther, I saw more and more work that is half abstract and half figurative. And that's an interesting combination, you know, because people approach it different and how they connect with it or what's the word I'm trying to say empathize with it or relate to it you know so that was really interesting but what was also amazing is that you were very prolific and I like that part you know because all my favorite artists are the ones who are very prolific you know there's some artists that take a long time to do one painting and that's That's their process, and that's good. But I like painters who paint every day, you know, because it just evolves out of them, really. You know, sometimes you get to the point, it seems, as talking to artists, where you're almost an instrument of whatever the muse or whatever the inspiration is. I know I feel that same way as a writer. When you're writing something and you think it's going to go this way, you have an idea in your head about the characters, and they just take off. No, this is how I want to be. You just are seeing it now. And I think that's the way with painters because although very studied, it's a very spontaneous process at the same time that you don't know when that inspiration is going to strike and start guiding your hand. So that was always a very definite part of your work. And also the technique. You use a lot of different techniques in the same canvas or in the And I love the texture that it brings to every single one of those paintings. And that's always very, very good to me. Very attractive to me anyways. But I was still always trying to figure out. But you started a self-help gallery. What was this punk gallery that you showed at, Cece?
SPEAKER_02:Well, actually, it was one of the first punk stores, New Wave Stores in Westwood. Thank you. And yes, I was working for Levi's Strauss, Levi's for Gals, as a receptionist showroom model. And somebody turned me on to a friend of theirs that needed somebody to, an artist to work at their Westwood store. And it was a wild ride. We had great times. It was, you know, the music. I did all their advertisements. design clothes for them. And it was an amazing time to be there. And it was like, you know, late 70s, early 80s. And And I think I did mention that Richard Duardo came into that store. Yeah,
SPEAKER_04:and you had pink and turquoise hair at the same time?
SPEAKER_02:I had turquoise hair, and my friend Martha had pink hair. And I'll tell you, when he walked in, he looked very divine, I have to say, dressed in this amazing suit. And the pattern was like an indigenous pattern or an Aztec pattern.
UNKNOWN:Wow.
SPEAKER_02:And he just eyeballed us and we eyeballed him and it was like, what is this all about? And he was very, very sweet, muy simpatico. And we were talking, you know, he was asking about the store and then he invited us actually to his, the place, the studio that he was working at. And one day we went down there and it was in Highland Park and we walked into the studio. I believe it was on Figueroa. And you have to remember, I didn't know any of these artists. And so he started introducing us to some of the artists and one of them was Carlos Almaraz. So, you know, actually he was looking to do some silkscreen for us. because we were also doing silkscreen t-shirts with some of the punk clothes.
SPEAKER_04:For those of you who don't know who Richard Duarte was, he was the head of Modern Multiples, which was the printer of record in the Chicano community early at Modern Multiples. I already said that. And he printed everybody in the movement at that particular time. And to this day, he's like one of the master printers. He also did all the printing for the Chicano Visions part of it, where we had a a print of every single one of the artists that were in the show. Wonderful. Unfortunately, he's passed on, and I'm still mad at him about that. But he was a great inspiration to the whole Chicano movement. He introduced me to a lot of artists over the years, and he encouraged me to keep showing it like I was going to do. So you hooked up with the right guy at the right time. There
SPEAKER_02:it is. It was exciting. You know, he came to see the Village Muse in Westwood. We came to see the studio in Highland Park. Yeah. It was wonderful.
SPEAKER_04:Did you work with him at any Prince? No.
SPEAKER_02:No, I've never, I never had the opportunity, but I would have loved to.
SPEAKER_04:I would love to.
SPEAKER_02:I went to some of his parties.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, well, those are good. They went on for days. Yeah. He always used to show up at my house on Sunday morning with a bucket of menudo and some pan de huevo, you know, and we'd discuss art. It was great in those days. So what is your educational background? You went to where?
SPEAKER_02:East LA College. And I went there for about two years. And then, you know, prior to that, I worked in a factory to get money to go to school. And fortunately, I had to drop out of college. And I just started, you know, getting into the workforce. And so that's my one of my first jobs was the showroom model at Levi's for gals. I did get a whole wardrobe. It What
SPEAKER_04:kind of
SPEAKER_02:factory did you work
SPEAKER_04:in? taught you the path of art after you got out of school or during this process?
SPEAKER_02:You know, as a young girl, I was always I was always paint, drawing or something. It's kind of a Lady Gaga song. I was born this way. I just naturally started painting and drawing. But my dad was an artist, but he didn't work as an artist. But he would draw every night when he would come home. He would draw after he was reading the newspaper. And I would cut out those little pictures and save every single one of them. And I do have a couple of his paintings still. But I actually never met any other artists until I, I guess, started working, to tell you the truth. I had gone to galleries, I had gone to museums, but I had not gone, I had not really met a real artist until I met the German artist, Uli Berg.
SPEAKER_04:So how did you get in with Carlos Almaraz and all those guys?
SPEAKER_02:I did not. I was born in San Gabriel and I I lived in Altadena. So I kind of I don't have that pedigree that a lot of people have of the walkouts and everything. And I'll tell you a really interesting story. When I was working for the Village News and I was traveling to London, you know, seeing the punks in London and doing work there. And I came back. And there was a friend that said, you know what, you should go to self-help graphics. And I said, what's that? Well, you need to come, you know, just check it out. And I was always a human rights type of person, right? Very aware. But when I went to self-help graphics, I have to tell you, I was blown away. I mean, a lot of political stuff they were into, an awareness that I have to tell you that I did not have. I came from a very strict family. And so... I wasn't allowed to wander, you know, go to other areas or anything. And so it was a real awakening for me. And I have to tell you, some of the artists there at that time in the 90s at Self Help Graphics were some of the most talented artists ever. I've ever met. I mean, I was totally inspired by them. You know, Israel Rodriguez, Artemio Rodriguez was working there at the time. Polly Marichal, Marianne Sadowski, just all these people, a wealth of talent. And it really made me aware of what was happening in underprivileged areas, too. So, you know, it was a real turning point for me.
SPEAKER_04:Was that any influence on your divide between doing abstract work and figurative work? Because there's two distinct fields that you work in. Not that they're not related, but they're two distinct fields.
SPEAKER_02:Well, at the Punkster, the Village Muse, I did a lot of illustrations. And, you know, at Disney, I did a lot of digital work,
SPEAKER_03:right?
SPEAKER_02:But I had always drawn. I always kept a journal.
SPEAKER_03:I
SPEAKER_02:always drew in it. When I started painting, I found myself really attracted to shapes and shapes. The force of the canvas, the size of the canvas too, because I like working large. And then at a certain point, the two
SPEAKER_01:came together. Abel Ortiz mentioned something that I thought was pertinent to the discussion between you and Cece just now. And he says he relates to Cece's work because he too explores and speaks through both abstract and representational imagery. And he said for him, it feels like that it relates to his bilingual knowledge. to not limit ourselves to one language. And that's what he sees in Cece's work. And I thought that was really a great point. And I was curious if Chris or Cece or Cheech, if that, you know, just kind of, what do you think about that? I thought it was really made sense.
SPEAKER_00:I love that, actually. I absolutely feel the same way, I think, when I saw Sisi's painting at the museum, saw how it was about being both bilingual and bicultural. And it's just that tension that exists, but that love for connecting the both that exists in our culture, where we can go from you hablo espanol to you hablo ingles, in English speaking, in a minute. So it is a beautiful comparison of what happens with abstraction and representation, like the two languages that exist and coexist. So thank you, Ivo.
SPEAKER_04:You can see that in like Soy Chicana and some of the other things that you do. So do you identify more with the abstract or more with the figurative?
SPEAKER_02:Well, that's a very interesting question. Because I've been asked by galleries, like you shouldn't do abstract or do the figurative. You have to choose one. And I feel, no, I do exactly what I want to do.
SPEAKER_04:Right. Sounds like an artist to me.
SPEAKER_02:But I really have to say self-help graphics. When I went there and met everybody, that was my tribe. I realized like, this is what I want to do. And this is where I belong. And so it was quite powerful.
SPEAKER_04:When you kind of came out as a Chicano or I started identifying with that movement, you were older than... emerging artists. So how did you identify at that point?
SPEAKER_02:Well, I have to say, you know, my parents were very, I come from one of the old families of San Gabriel, where everybody knew who we were, and reported back to my parents. And they use the word Chicano as a derogatory term, right? So a lot of people had that. My parents are always very proud, though, of being Mexican and American. My dad's Tex-Mex, you know, and he doesn't let you, he never let us forget that. I just think I was always a human rights person. When I was around more of the gente, I saw like a great need for a voice in my artwork that spoke to to what was happening around me. And I think it gave it even though I, you know, I wasn't in my 20s, but I was aware of what was going on always, you know, but I think it gave a freshness to my to my work, even though I was a little older. Yeah. that I came into it a little older.
SPEAKER_04:That was the one thing that surprised me when I first met you.
SPEAKER_02:That I was old?
SPEAKER_04:No, that you were older and making an appearance for the first time. I
SPEAKER_02:was going to say a working girl. We're
SPEAKER_04:all working girls, honey.
SPEAKER_02:I had to make a living. I lived by myself. I was a single woman. I would come home from eight hours, nine hours, and set up my easel and start painting until two o'clock in the morning. and then go to sleep and wake up and do the same thing all over again. And I was exhibiting and stuff. I just, I don't know the, you know, sure, I would have liked a larger circle of where I showed, but that is something I think that needs to be addressed, you know, with things that are happening now. I think we need more representation and people need to see what's happening in a lot of different communities.
SPEAKER_04:It was interesting. I was talking to Sonia Faye the other day when we had this conversation and I told her that what I've noticed is that the women part of this movement, the females are more outraged by injustices that I see. They want to get to the canvas right away and to the easel because they're just like... that something really pisses you off. And even though you have an immediate inspiration, the product that comes out at the end takes a long time. I mean, this is a very handcrafted work that you do. So it's not like you just don't dash it off and here's my, it represents emotion. It doesn't, it represents emotion originally, but the craftsmanship really comes into it. And that's the perfect microphone to use, to announce the outrage, you know, and we've had plenty of chances in the last years, you know, to like, what are you people? And so to strike your voice, and that's really what attracted me. But as I see the painting behind you, the abstract, I see now the techniques that you use. In the other work, in the other figurative works, you know, that method of painting and the method of drawing, that they kind of flow together. This is an remarkable work. So then the question, do you identify more with the abstract or the figurative?
SPEAKER_02:You know, that's a hard question because both of those are me. Yeah. In my house, I have abstract. My drawings were something abstract. that were always a personal side of me. And like I said, I had always kept a journal. I just felt that, I don't think I can make that call. I think maybe when I merge them together, why that happens, I just feel that there is a need to speak, because it's a language that I'm speaking, right? I mean, when I draw, It's a much more personal relationship with the viewer that can kind of see where my head's at. When I do abstract, they have to look a little bit more carefully into it.
SPEAKER_04:I love your abstract work. I mean, you can just see it right there. But I see some of the images that morphed into similar images, but... put together to tell a narrative. It's amazing. You know, people are always amazed by your work when I sell it to them, but I have to screen them.
SPEAKER_02:Well, this one's an oil. And I tend, when I work with oil, I do a lot of layering. I use also other materials like charcoal and things like that. So it's a real process. And I'm a big nerd when it comes to painting and stuff like that. I think most people who know me go, wow, she's really into it. When I paint... And it depends, especially say like during the pandemic, when I laugh, my canvas laughs. When I cry, my canvas cries. I really feel at one with my canvas.
SPEAKER_04:It shows. I mean, the unity in your work is amazing. Chris, do you have a question? We've been ignoring you as long as we could, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, yes, yes. I have a couple of questions. And again, thank you for making me part of this conversation. I had the pleasure to meet Cici and seeing her work, Soy Chicana, when it was first presented in Papel Chicano Doze at the Museum of Contemporary Art in San Diego. And I fell in love with the piece. It was actually the centerpiece for a large salon hanging of Cheech Marin's collection at the museum. And I think what draw me to the work was that tension that you're speaking about, the abstraction and the figuration, the contemporary and the symbolism of the Mexican-American culture, all of those things coming together. I love in that piece, how you have sort of these very cartoon-like, which now I take comes from the inspiration of the illustration work that we were doing at Walt Disney, Quetzalcoatl skulls in bone figures and then the abstract skirts that flow with the women kind of running behind a bullfight. There's so much. It's such a complex piece. There's a lot of text that speak to your passion about human rights and liberation. But one of my big questions, and you were alluding a little bit to it, this sort of the role of the female artists in the sort of Chicano movement arena and how do you carve a space for yourself. So if you want to tell us a little bit about how is that kind of process of carving a space for yourself, as Cheech also mentioned, you seem to have been in front of everyone, but at the same time, not as noticed by some of the people in the movement. But you certainly have made quite an appearance and we love your work. So do you want to chat a little bit about that, Cece?
SPEAKER_02:Well, being a Chicana, Latina artist, it was something that, you know, some people, I have to tell you this, I'm being very honest. Someone once questioned me as to tell me if you're a Chicana artist. Are you really a Chicana artist? You know, and it was like the Spanish Inquisition or something. I mean, it was like, and it was like, why do I have to prove that? And I am. Yo soy, you know, soy Chicana. And anyway, the exhibit was taken away from me. because of it. But I think I got the last laugh. But anyway, I just feel that my work, I hope, especially when I do political work, because I do a lot of political work, and it deals with immigration, it deals with women's rights. I just think that people don't know me as well. And maybe some people know me for my abstracts and not enough for my pieces that are more figurative or surreal. But could you just... Fine-tune your question just a little more because I did
SPEAKER_00:start to wonder. No worries. But I think, as you were saying, the Spanish Inquisition style of questioning who's Chicano and who's not, but also the fact that there were very few women within the cohort. We have wonderful people like Judy Baca and Yolanda Lopez, but... Among them were many more, and those people did not get center stage. Many times because of those questions, are you really Chicano or Chicana?
SPEAKER_02:The other thing you pointed out, I think it's a big problem. I'll tell you, when... My friends get together, my friend Linda Areola, and we all get together and we talk about why isn't there more representation or there isn't really a focus on representation women Chicano artists. I mean, there are not that many. Okay. And I have to say the men tend to get the limelight. There's a lot more of them. But honestly, when we were making lists at one point at breakfast, I was horrified to find out like how few there are, you know, and they don't get the due respect because, you know, and I'm not necessarily talking about myself, but there's people that really paid their dues Chicana artists you know and women artists basically okay that don't get their dues they don't get their respect and that is going to change I really feel right now that there's a lot of things that are going on politically the museums have to change the galleries have to change it's time right I
SPEAKER_04:mean It has been my observation that in this last little period of time that they are the most vocal and the most outraged about things that are happening. You know, it's a completely different reaction and temperament to the men artists in the group. The women are just like, enough of this shit, you know. I mean, that's kind of the attitude I get. which is good, you know? It takes a lot of bravery to do that.
SPEAKER_02:And I don't know whether it's because we don't have the limelight on us and we can do whatever the you-know-what that we want to do without any blowback. Maybe when you're a little bit more well-known, they're expecting the same old, same old from you. I don't know. But Soy Chicana was definitely a journey for me. I was enraged when I did that piece. It was the beginning of, you know, 45's speech she gave. And I was, I mean, it was also hate radio. Actually, it was during the time of the hate radio. And I said to myself, you know what? I have a voice and my voice is my art. And the title Soichikana to me was a declaration similar to when Jesse Jackson gave his speech of, I am somebody. And so that piece really says, I'm here and I'm great.
SPEAKER_04:The great thing about the whole Chicano category, Chicana category, is that it's a self-declared section. You have to declare yourself a Chicano in order to be one. There's no box on the census that you can check off and there's Hispanic or, you know, but the Chicano, Chicana is not recognized as an official category. It's a voluntary category, but you can get a PhD in Chicano studies from Harvard University. So what's the message? We don't exist. It is truly a phantom culture that is really the mainstream. I mean, as far as I'm concerned, because of the longevity, the specificity of the vision of this group of painters, and it's expanding all the time, the many states it has been from California to New York, And for the length of time that it has endured and continues to evolve, that there's an argument to be made that the Chicano School of Art is maybe the most important and pertinent school of art ever in the history of the United States.
SPEAKER_02:I agree. And the other thing I would like to see, I'd like to see it open up to other styles. I think there's room enough for... You don't have to just paint one thing.
SPEAKER_04:That's part of the deal. Once you've established yourself as a Chicano artist and they know where you're coming from and what your identification and what your inspiration is, then I think at a certain point it gives you freedom to paint anything you want. If you come back and forth because your name is established, they see your thing, they know your political beliefs, they know your beliefs about women or children or the workforce or what whatever that is and you you it is almost like getting invested and an investiture ceremony that okay you've you've shown your bona fides and and now you can do whatever you want you know
SPEAKER_02:and it's it's freedom to me that's why i don't like people to put me in a box i am a chicana artist and whatever comes out of this body in these hands That's my work, and so it's by a Chicana artist.
SPEAKER_04:Well, you know, but there's also a... a philosophy, let's put it that, would be behind Chicano art. And it addresses something. It addresses political issues or women issues. And that's part and parcel as well as you can be an abstract. But those qualities are what define the school in the beginning. And how you interpret that going forward is your particular explanation of everything that made you. And that's... That's really, really good because you don't have to be just one thing. Todd, do you have another question? I
SPEAKER_05:do. CC, you talked a little bit about self-help graphics and your exposure there being a turning point for you. Will you talk a little bit about how your work has evolved since that time and sort of what that evolution has been like for you and maybe what inspired some of it? Were there other big turning points, other bends in that road? And what were those influences?
SPEAKER_02:Well, I definitely said, like I said, self-help graphics. I met people that I could really, you know, talk about art, learn a lot of different methods because self-help graphics did offer, you know, you could do... all different types of things, etching, watercolor, anything that you wanted to. So I started learning a lot of new techniques. I mean, I was doing some wild things in Westwood, drawings and all this and that, but there, I think I really honed a lot of my techniques, my artwork. And I also, because of my awareness at self-help and a lot of issues that I was not aware about, immigration and underprivileged areas and stuff, it changed my art. It started to reflect in my art what I was being exposed to. And I think that was really, really important. Other turning points, I just think... you start getting confidence. I mean, the fact that, you know, when Cheech collected Soy Chicana and my other work, I mean, I remember driving on the 2 Freeway and Stephen from Chimaya says, guess what? Cheech just bought Soy Chicana. And it was like, whoa! And I, you know, I... No, and I missed my exit on the freeway. I didn't realize I was driving. I was all the way almost to Burbank by that time. And so those kinds of things support, I think support from the community, other collectors, really, and they're acknowledging your work, you know? I mean, some of them can stay and live with me, you know, for a long time. But when somebody actually, you know, purchased something like that and then displays it and then it traveled for so many months and years. I mean, that's very, very special. That's very special.
SPEAKER_04:One of my mantras during this whole process from the beginning of collection to now is that you cannot love or hate Chicano art unless you see it. And I've always had this reaction when people come to see it. Oh, I didn't know it was going to be like this. I like this, you know. Okay, well, thank you very much. I like it too. I'm glad you came. And tell your friends, you know, spread the word. Because that's the process that we're in now. And with the establishment of the Cheechin Riverside, it is official. You know, I mean, it really represents a milestone that we have our first Chicano museum that represents kind of... the breadth and depth of the history of the arts. You can see how it developed. So, but I found that the wheels of progress grind exceedingly slow in the museum world. I mean, it's a very, because it's the final imprimatur of acceptance, cultural acceptance, you know, once you have a museum, you're on your way, but you get into the museum world and they say, well, come back in 25 years. If you're still there, we'll kind of consider you on the first row. on. Okay. I get it. I hope I live that long, you know, but it's, but you know, it's, you want change to happen fast. You want change to happen yesterday, but in the art where they rarely do, you know, and if they do happen that fast, they don't last, you know? So we want long lasting and influential work as we go forward. And that's what I see in your work. I was like, I couldn't even see the whole thing because it's sagged in the middle.
SPEAKER_02:No, but Stephen did need a big piece and he, he didn't realize it was going to be so warm that day. So I stepped on sliding down. He goes, you got to do something, but I don't know, Stephen, what can we do? And he goes, we got to think of something, you know,
SPEAKER_04:but we'll sell it to cheese. That's an idea.
SPEAKER_02:You know, I have to tell you, it immediately got attention. I mean, people really love that.
SPEAKER_04:It is a good, it's a wonderful piece, you know, and, and it goes through this process about it. You know, if we're going to, well, what are we going to put on the cover of the, of the catalog or the book, you know, and then had three or four of them now. And it always, it comes to me in the middle of the night, you know, Oh, that one. Yeah. That's absolutely perfect. And that's, I didn't go through that process with your work. I knew it was going to be the cover immediately because it fit, you know, it fit the whole, the whole book concept of wraparound. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. It was beautiful. And, you know, as a previous graphic designer, I saw that, how it worked really well. And, you know, Soy Chagana, I mean, that has so many symbolisms in it. I don't know, I mean, you knew it had the Pledge of Allegiance in Soy Chagana. But, and I was talking to somebody and, you know, it's a blending of two cultures that came together. I mean, granted it was, you know, what happened in the Americas, but it also, I think can, that people that are of color can, I think can really understand that because we are, you know, with the Pledge of Allegiance, that means, you know, just because we're people of color or come from different areas, we don't even question our patriotism. So that piece was very special to me. It jumped off the wall.
SPEAKER_04:It looks like it was trying to get away from the wall when I first thought. Let me out here. Find me a home. Because it was so heavy when I went up to touch. Because I always touch the art. And this is heavy. It's on canvas. Or what was it on? I can't remember. But it was like no wonder it's drooping, man. So I had to get it stretched and framed first of all. And so I have a theory about framing. The framing either stops the painting or continues the painting. And And so I, you know, try to do something that's appropriate, but always to the end of featuring the painting, how to best show it off. You know, if you have a woman with a great figure, you want something skin tight, you know, if it's, if something else you want something else. And, and so it, I put this big red lacquer frame around it and it was like beautiful. And Stephen from Chimaya came over to the house to see it. And he goes, I had it hanging in the hallway. It goes, oh, wow, I didn't know that that work was so good. But it kind of rung, you know, because, no, okay, you're supposed to look at this, you know, and the frames do that. And sometimes the painting doesn't need a frame. I like to show off the painting.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, it definitely needed a frame, and I thought you picked a great color. And it doesn't fall off the wall anymore.
SPEAKER_04:And it doesn't fall off the wall no more. So what is the inspiration that makes you do something abstract or figurative or representational when you go walk to the canvas? Do you have an idea? I better get to the canvas because I have this idea. Or do you like, I'm going to sit in front of the canvas and see what happens. And it's either abstract or representational. Is that a conscious effort that you've thought of an idea? And you go to the canvas to execute it.
SPEAKER_02:Well, it's very interesting. There are times where I just will attack the canvas and it's a matter of color and feeling and shapes and everything. And even if, you know, and sometimes I will just leave it alone like that. There have been other times where I've done an abstract and said, you know what? I think it needs a little bit of some type of color. figure or drawing on it and I will never dictate to the painting really what it's supposed to do it kind of tells me when it needs something but normally when I'm doing something political it tends to be it tends to be in a figurative sense You know, I do have one piece that I actually there's a couple of pieces in my house. One is called Asylum. It's a total abstract, but it has to do with undocumented immigrants. And then I don't know if you see that one right on that corner, but that's called Remains of the Conquest. So it really depends on the language and what I want to say, you know, how forceful I want to say something about, you know, something usually political. Like I say, I have a sketchbook. I will sit and I will draw and I will document. It's kind of like an illustrated diary. And I will document what's going on, you know, in the world and my life. in my life. I have, you know, there's a couple of books like this on our president, ex-president 45. And it's amazing when I look back on it. I also have one that I did on 9-11. And there are drawings in there that I can't believe I did that. Wow. You know, and it's just almost like a stream of consciousness.
SPEAKER_04:So when you start to work, do you work to it till you finish it? Or do you get to a certain point and say, I need to get away from this for a little while and walk away and leave home and hitchhike across the U.S. and then come back and finish it? Or what's the process?
SPEAKER_02:It depends. If I, like the sage, when I wanted to say something like that, I knew that it had to have some figurative pieces in there. There are other pieces that I've done that have like one piece that has A huge avocado. And it was kind of like abstract. But then I felt that it needed a figurative piece. So at first, it wasn't planned. It just happened. And I like the freedom of doing whatever I feel that the painting needs or the painting is telling me that it needs. When I was a young girl, artist in my apartment, when I would paint small pieces, I would bring them at night of acrylic, not oil. I'd bring them into my bedroom, sit them on a chair right on the side of my bed, go to sleep and wake up and look The first thing my eyes went to was that painting. And I would eyeball it and say, okay, this is wrong on that painting. You know, it was those fresh eyes looking at that piece. So, you know, sometimes it can be instinct. Sometimes it can be a stream of consciousness. I tend to work very, very much like with stream of consciousness. So Ichigana, I mean, those, the figurative type of work, I tend to work like continuously. And in fact, when I did Soy Chicana, I was living in a small apartment and my husband was, you know, we had just gotten married and I had to roll it across, you know, the wall and across the door. And I told him, could you please call me when you come home? Because do not open the door, there's a painting there. And basically, I would just draw and draw and draw and draw, you know, until I, you know, I had to take it down and then put it up the next day and draw and draw and draw. But where there's a will, there's a way.
SPEAKER_04:I've heard this story, a similar story from a lot of, mainly the women artists, because they're painting in small studio-ish kinds of things that are, that's their apartment, house, garage, whatever that's conjoined. And it's always, they always I just want to do a gigantic piece, you know? So the problem always arises, you know, like, well, how do I even fit it in the house and how do I get perspective on it? And how do I back up? And, you know, it's a process, but, but the determination in the finishing the project always shines through. I mean, like determined to do this because abstract, you can come back a year later and keep on going, I guess, you
SPEAKER_02:know? Yeah. But I know when it's finished, I feel it. You know, during the pandemic, I mean, I never stopped painting. And most of them are abstract. I have this little piece here, which has an interesting story to it. It was my husband's first haircut during pandemic. And what I did was the clippings of his hair, I took and I mixed into the paint.
SPEAKER_04:Is this Santeria or something? Is it a process? Was there chickens involved here?
SPEAKER_02:It was just a different texture.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah,
SPEAKER_02:I see. You can't see it, but I know it's there. I mean, that's my personal collection. And it's called, you know, Hair of the Dog. And we call him the Big Dog. So it's called the Hair of the Dog. Did
SPEAKER_04:he appreciate that?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, he claims that now as his.
SPEAKER_04:Well, you know, Hair of the Dog.
SPEAKER_02:Hair of the Dog,
SPEAKER_04:yes. Yeah, Dave. So what is your consists of these days getting up and and uh And doing what?
SPEAKER_02:I'm very disciplined. Yeah. I have to tell you. I mean, you can't have somebody to say, well, don't you think you should draw now? Or don't you think you should go in your studio? I'm very disciplined. And we get up in the morning. He goes on his side of the house. I go into my studio because we have a house now. So it's bigger. That's nice. I paint. I paint. I, it's my nature to be creative. That's what I do. Yeah. Yeah. And even taking care of my mom, when I have to take care of my mom, I would, you know, she probably would say stop already, but I would, you know, dress her up like, you know, maybe Frida Kahlo, a little shell, a little shawl. I would try to even bring that creativity to her. I took a lot of photographs of her. So it's something that is part of me.
SPEAKER_03:When
SPEAKER_02:I was a child, they would say, Cece, please, can't we just do, no, we're going to create this and it's my nature to, you know, to make things to, you know, whatever it's going to be. I just, I love the ability to create and it's a gift.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, it is. I mean, artists generally know they're going to be artists very soon in their life, you know, because they can't help, but pick up the pencil and paper and draw something on it. I mean, it's just, it's like singers, you know, singers sing all the time. I mean, they wake up singing and they go, you know, they eat dinner singing and they go out to the yard and say, but painters are the same way. You know, it's just, they're quieter.
SPEAKER_02:Yes. I mean, when I go into my, my studio, it's my sanctuary and, You know, everything I leave, or at least I try, leave everything outside that door. And I am in my zone, you know, and I love it.
SPEAKER_04:So what's inspiring you lately? What are you doing right now?
SPEAKER_02:Right now, I'm starting to produce work coming out of the pandemic. And I feel it's like, and this is for everybody, it's like a renaissance. It's going to be a renaissance, a rebirth. And so I'm doing new work right now. So I'm very excited. I mean, it's like, let's get off with the mask. I'm vaccinated. And let's start doing Rolling now. Let's start working.
SPEAKER_04:I think so. I absolutely think so. I think the artists are the avatars of the age and they see things coming greatly a long distance away. And we have to kind of listen to ours because of the advanced sensors of anywhere we're going. So I think we're going to come out of this pandemic happy. Totally changed. We're not going back to the way we used to do things. And it's just not going to happen because we're going to be faster, more streamlined, more communicative throughout the world. And that's kind of what we needed. You know, it is really what we need. And so we're learning a new language and a new rhythm right now. And that is going to, I think, in the end, save us.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, I agree. There's going to be so many like technology. I mean, so many new things. I mean, I'm not saying I was like thrilled throughout the whole pandemic, but for the most part, I was doing what I normally do and that's pain. But I think I'm very excited about, you know, the new year and what's going to happen.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, we're going to see some amazing things and it's going to go very fast. And the fundamental way we do business in the world is in the midst of change right now. And it's going to happen very rapidly. It's happening very rapidly. You know, the new norms are like, well, we're not going to come back to work if we don't get a living wage. That's going on right now. People cannot, the companies don't have enough workers, no matter what they do, if it's technological making rockets or, you know, shoes. We're reconfiguring how we approach that, how we make better, faster, cheaper, you know, more outstanding products. And that's happening right now. And people are going to have to adjust to that.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. And equality and women artists, their presence in museums and galleries, you know, that's going to, I think it's a good thing.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I don't think I don't see why they shouldn't, you know, women painters or artists are as talented or maybe more in some cases than anybody else so that they should get their day and continue to get their day. You know, I've, I've, I was married to a painter once since I've, I've heard this right before, you know, so, so I, you just, yeah, you know, I had a, my wife, she complained about now we're getting, you know, with women are excluded. She had more shows than any person I've ever seen in my life. You know, but but I can see that, you know, her point. And but but that's going to change. And also, we need to find eventually at some point how to to ramp up the commercial element and people that promote the work in order to, OK, this can go good and over your couch, you know, kind of because the art world and the art market is like the stock market. It goes up, it goes down. It gets discovered. It was big today and not big tomorrow. So it takes constant reinforcement in the form of dollars. And that's the half of the art world. And the other half is the museum world. And to balance those two things, and they should work in conjunction with each other in a perfect world. So we'll see where that comes out. I
SPEAKER_01:think that's one of the beautiful things about the touring programs And I really think that's been my most exciting thing about working with you is because it's so innovative for you as a collector. That's why I really don't even like to call you a collector. I think of you as an art advocate because your voice, you have really elevated voices of everyone in the community and the artistic community. And that's been such a pleasure for me personally to watch. And just even doing these programs right now. I mean, honestly, just this is our third of four programs and this is so exciting. exciting to hear voices, not only of the artists that you have in the collection, but also artists and curators who have worked with, I mean, to really get to know Chris today and to continue that conversation beyond today. That's also really great. One thing you said in one of our last programs, Cheech, was that you talked about that you don't, again, you want to speak to all audiences because here I am, I'm evidently not a Chicana I identify with the community in many ways because I have been so involved with it for the past 20 years but I think the best thing that you have done too is not again elevating artists who are and giving them voice not only to their own community but to communities at large and I looked at just even the tour schedule for example that we brought the papel Chicana dose and there's nine um museums that actually showed it and it's Tulsa Oklahoma um Lake Miami, Wyoming, Riverside. Of course, that's actually how we got to know Riverside. Thank God. I love it. San Diego, Anaheim. It's now in Colorado. So we're really canvassing all levels of different cities across the country and reaching so many communities. And I think that's really so great of you in that way. And then also elevating what you're doing to elevate artists like Cece, you know, just really sharing her work. I think I'm so excited about that. I'm sure what do you think about it cc i'm sure that you're just like um we were talking the other day margaret has a piece that was elevated a lot with chicana visions this is your piece or chicana really has i see it all the time when i go on the internet and look up exhibitions in chicana white it pops up have you seen a lot of attention with that
SPEAKER_02:oh lots of attention i mean you know people that i i don't know or other artists that you know want to talk to me about about it. I have a lot of people that, you know, they ask me about soy chicana and they They just want to know how they can get their pieces in a museum and stuff. And I just want them just to work and work and work. But it's made me so very proud to have Soichigana in the Chichi Collection, I have to tell you. I mean, I know Sonia had said that, you know, when you have one of your pieces in a museum, it's like you've arrived, you know? Yeah, and it... I am very proud. I am very proud. I mean, it's kind of like I don't have children, but it's like my child did really well and it's gone on and, you know, has a life of its own and something.
SPEAKER_04:It's exactly what I mean. You get lifted to a place of reverence. When you see it, oh, I like this. I thought Chicano art was going to be a picture of a guy sleeping under a cactus with a pot of beans. No, it is the most sophisticated group of painters that are working today in the United States and maybe the world that have been long lived over a number of years, over a number of states and the country. I think it really represents America more than any other school of of work that I've ever seen.
SPEAKER_02:But that's a little bit of my life on that wall in that museum. it's a beautiful thing I have
SPEAKER_00:to say I think one of the things that we haven't spoke a little bit about is your role as a mentor and as a teacher both of youth and other artists and kind of the emerging generation and how you get inspiration from that too so if you can speak a little bit about what was that experience of really working with youth especially as you said maybe disadvantaged communities or at some point even incarcerated youth. I thought you had shared that in part of your journey.
SPEAKER_02:You know, it really, it was very eye-opening to me when I was working for a group called Theater of Hearts. And For some reason, I was always sent to the camps and usually boys camps. And I had never been exposed to that kind of, you know, a camp, juvenile camp. It's basically their prisons, right? I would go in there and they would check all my supplies and then the door would lock. There were guards, you know. And I would go into the classroom and, you know, everybody loves art. Come on. Who doesn't love art? Well, there are some people who won't do art. And I would have to kind of coax them into it. But I had met some of the most talented young people at that place. And I would wonder, like, I even asked them, what are you doing here? You know, I mean, they showed... a lot of talent. They showed a lot of intelligence. And also because I kind of like, you know, I do surreal, but I love surreal also. There was a lot of surreal images within their drawings. But I also would never discourage somebody. I don't care how bad they drew. I always, always encourage them because you never know where that might take them or something in their head can click you know and you know it's kind of like you can do this too you know I don't know what you've done but I have to say most of them in there were for drugs they had a bad attorney or no attorney they were like you know 15 or 16 years old And they were sitting in these God awful camps and it was heartbreaking. It's tough to teach in a place like that. I also taught at a place where a lot of the kids were drugged because maybe they were difficult to handle and they would sit there and drool out of their mouths. And I just thought somebody should be able to reach them. I mean, it shouldn't be a warehouse of our youth. And there were black youth, brown youth. There was also Aryan Nation in there. And so it was an experience that I just think... that something has to be done. Something has to change. But it was the most rewarding probably thing that I've ever done. And I'm also very proud of that because they gave a lot more back to me.
SPEAKER_04:Seems like sometimes that group of youth needs somebody to Listen to them or give them a chance, you know, or show them some attention. It's an aspect that they lack and they really want. And encouragement is always the best thing. Todd, any other questions?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, thanks. So you talked a little bit about this renaissance, this point of renaissance where we are, and I'm interested to know where in that moment or this particular moment you are finding inspiration. And is it and are you finding it taking you in a new direction or is it amplifying work that you were doing either during the pandemic or are you returning to themes and and things from from before the pandemic?
SPEAKER_02:No, it's going to have to be fresh. And I'm going to be experimenting on some new things. You know, found objects. Just I like pushing myself. I don't like to be stale. I love going into Home Depot or someplace like that and look and see and find things that I can incorporate into my artwork. I want my work to be something new and something that came out of the pandemic that was for good. That's what I want to do. And I'm really excited about it. So we'll see what happens. But the other thing is, there are things that I will take with me. Everybody has been affected by the pandemic. So whether you know it or not, whatever you do, or when I'm painting, that'll be an element of what we went through, right? But we turned it around, and I'm just finding that it's going to be a challenge, and I'm excited to do
SPEAKER_01:it. There's a question from Jason Gonzalez that I wanted to share with Cece. He was wondering how your time as a graphic designer, especially the Ruff Young DIY aesthetic of the punk scene in the waning days of stat cameras and the earliest days of photocopiers, how did that– time as a graphic designer inform your approach to printmaking and painting? Well,
SPEAKER_02:I'll tell you, I actually was at Disney at the time when computers started happening. And I was very fortunate. I was able to start learning at that time. And I would do some drawings. It was right at the beginning. We didn't have Photoshop or anything like that. It was just kind of line drawings. But even now, I do use my computer skills to when I photograph a painting, maybe it's even, you know, I'm in the process of painting. I take it into Photoshop. I turn it around. I look at it. I change colors on it. So it's a very helpful tool. My husband happens to be in the visual effects business. So he uses that a lot. But when I was working for the Village Muse, there weren't really, we didn't really use a lot of computers. We had to do everything the old way, the
SPEAKER_04:old way. Computer is just another brush. It's what you do with that brush.
SPEAKER_01:We have one more question and we'll close. It's a question from the audience. And the question was, Cece, can you talk about your performative art, especially the fabulous Calavera walking altars? I actually hope those continue because I hope that maybe we can help the tradition with the Cheech. I'd love to see that. What do you think? What's going on with that?
SPEAKER_02:Well, you know, we did those at Tropico de Nopal and Reyes Rodriguez is the one that put those together. And I think I was in every single one except maybe one. And the premise of the Day of the Dead day fashion show was that you were supposed to pick somebody that, you know, an artist or somebody that you were honoring that had passed. And as an artist, I usually always chose an artist. So I did the Siqueiros piece, I think was the most, it took the most time. And what I did was, was I tried to replicate the mural that's in Olvera Street with a crucifixion of the Indian on the back of my mural, because my piece was one big mural, right? And in the front was the face of Siqueiros, but in 3D. I don't know how I'm able to do that, how I can figure out how to do this. I'm not a seamstress, but I send I somehow can figure out how to make things. And it was extremely heavy. And then I had a piece coming up this way with the American Eagle over here sitting on my head. And it was I was the finale.
SPEAKER_01:I was I was there. And that's actually the first time I saw you. I never met you. But it was phenomenal.
SPEAKER_02:It was it was wonderful piece. And it was I had made it out of burlap. So and then the burlap was scratchy. So I had to put some kind of fleece or something inside so it wouldn't scratch me. Right. So. I created this whole tribute to Siqueiros. I put it on, I thought, this is pretty good. And then I kept it on a little longer because I had to keep my arms up like this. And I thought, damn, this is really heavy. But what I did was I stuck a pole on the back of my neck through the costume so it would hold my arms up. And then you had to balance yourself too, you know? So that is a wonderful piece. Siqueiros' face and his hand, the 3D hand coming out like this. I mean, it really worked. I was really surprised. I have six costumes. One of it is to Picasso, too. Oh,
SPEAKER_04:really? It's like when you see the bat signal, you put it on and run out the door?
SPEAKER_02:Well, everybody has their own costume, each artist. And my friend Abel used to also be in the show, and he did some great costumes. So all the artists have their costumes at their house. So they belong to us.
SPEAKER_04:Maybe we'll revive that tradition somewhere along the line. That's a good way to go. We
SPEAKER_01:need to have it at the grand opening. Let's talk. Maybe there's something fun we can do. Well, I really want to thank you so much for joining us today because this was like amazing. I know Cheech, how would you, why don't you say some closing words and then I'll do the close.
SPEAKER_04:Well, I'm really delighted to give you a space to explain your art and to just be seen by the public to know that you're there and doing great work that has been featured as much as I can feature it in every show. But we see the length and breadth and depth of the artist pool that we have to draw from. And they're talented. There's a lot of them. And they're younger and they're older. at the same time. And that's what I like about that. You know, there is something reverence given to OGs, you know, if they're not Chicanosaurus, I guess. But it's a continuous line. It's a continuous line of inspiration that we're dealing with now. And it goes from Chicanosaurus to Latinx. And this is a coming together. Every generation likes to be known for themselves, but they're a part of the tradition. that is still continuing. And it gives voice to things that we think are right in this world. So thank you very much for contributing to it, you know, because it's a very strong voice.
SPEAKER_01:Cece, again, thank you for being our star today. We're very excited. Please check out Cece's work on her Instagram account. That's where she's most prolific as well as her Facebook. But her Instagram account is Cece, which is C-I-C-I dot Segura dot Gonzalez. And that's with two Z's. Her artwork is on view currently at the Colorado Springs Fine Arts Centers through august 7th minute comes home to california to learn more about the cheech please visit thecheechcenter.org for show notes links and artwork images that were mentioned in this program please visit causeconnect.net that post will be transferred over to riversideartmuseum.org later this summer when they get their new website and of course it'll be on thecheechcenter.org as well now thanks again this series was presented by riverside art museum it was made possible through the generosity of the Union Pacific Foundation.